Getting Real: Cash Flow, Borrowing, and Managing Big Risks!

Welcome to the inaugural episode of "Bricks, Banter, and Backroads," the podcast that's all about rural property development and the journey from dream to reality! In this pilot episode, join hosts Sam Butler and Neil Burden as they pull back the curtain on their own property development journey with Burden and Butler. From humble beginnings in Lincolnshire to ambitious plans for the future, Sam, a seasoned builder, and Neil, an entrepreneurial spirit, share their triumphs, challenges, and aspirations for the company.

Tune in as they discuss their vision for the first series of the podcast, where they'll dive deep into topics like land acquisition, renovation strategies, design trends, and the unique opportunities and challenges of rural property development. With a focus on authenticity, practicality, and plenty of banter, Sam and Neil aim to inspire and educate listeners who are embarking on their own property development ventures.

Whether you're a DIY enthusiast, a seasoned investor, or simply curious about the world of rural real estate, this pilot episode sets the stage for an exciting journey ahead. So grab your tool belt, pour yourself a cuppa, and join us as we navigate the winding backroads of property development together!

If you want more Burden and Butler madness head over to...

Our YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/@BurdenandButler
or find us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/burdenandbutler

You can also follow the guys on their own socials here...

SAM: https://www.instagram.com/sbconstruction1990
NEIL: https://www.instragram.com/neilburden85

Got something to say or want to be on the pod send us an email: contact@burdenandbutler.com

Chapters

• 4:09 How the boys met!
• 11:32 Finding the first property.
• 19:03 Is there a plan??
• 28:44 Who's doing what.... cash flow, logistics and micromanaging!
• 31:55 The future plans for the pod....
• 35:23 The end goal!

Transcript

Hi, I am Neil Burden. Hi, I'm 

Sam Butler and we Are Burden. I'm Butler, and this is our Rural Property podcast. 

Bricks, banter, and back roads.  On this first episode, good profits to be made. There's money to be made. Yeah. 

And obviously me being a good builder that  

Oh yeah. Well, allegedly, I mean, 

I'm,  we thought we was gonna spend a certain amount.

Yeah. And it's already gone over that point. Yeah. Buying land here. Yeah. Like we are looking at a deal that. You just, it's unbelievable, aren't we? 

Yeah. Isn't it? Well, my money's gone already. Yeah. And we've already done the, we've only done the two properties, so,  but we, people listening are probably thinking, were your boys idiots because 

we, we too have a cash flow situation that we've got to manage.

That's some big boy balls that, 

um, I am really enjoying the colour in here. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. It's very vibey. 

It's a good vibe. So, um. Victoria play the theme tune. 

Butler,  

would 

you like me just 

talk about it? Do you want me to use the same as what we use for the intro on 

the bird and the Butler YouTube? Is it a bit rocky? I don't know.  

It's a little bit What's, what's your feel? What should, what's should?  Maybe we should write something. You are gonna write something?

Yeah.  Okay, 

so that's spoiling it?  No, no. Might see it. Okay, good. I  see.  Oh, I don't know. Maybe it's a bit more relaxed and  

you know,  with Yeah. Well, more chilled music. Yeah. Yeah. 

What? I don't really know. I don't think I've ever heard the music or took notice of the music into a populace. 

See, really this is, this is part of it. So, um, on brand. Welcome everybody to episode number one, the pilot episode of, um, Bricks, Banter and Backroads. 

We, we, I had to read it 'cause I 

forgot what it's called.  

It's a bit of a mouthful, but it's it's a bit I've heard It's gonna become very catchy. You'll all be on it soon enough.

But who are we? What are we called? So we are Bird and Butler. We are Bird 

and Butler. It's a lot of bees. A lot. A lot of bees. Yeah. Look, look how much fun we're having. Look, we'd only known each other a 

week then literally. We fun guys, aren't we? Yeah. 

It was then anyways, just progressive. Yeah. It's just got progressively worse. 

Uh, so over the next uh, few episodes, we are gonna be discussing everything, property development in rural Lincolnshire specific to our area. Yeah. But any rural living really. Yeah. For anybody that wants to do what we are 

doing. Yeah. 'cause I think there's a bit of a misconception on. The rural property development or property development in general.

General, yeah. We've discovered that we see a lot going on down south towards the London area. That just does not hit this area at all. No, and it isn't possible. And there's 

people doing it down south and they're like, oh, you don't want to get into it. It's hard work. It's blah this, it's that. Yeah. But land prices are very 

different here.

A lot cheaper. Um, and there's still huge scope for profits, and I think that's the, the thing that we've noticed is that in certain areas, certain pockets of Lincolnshire, especially. If you can recognize it, then there's good, good profits to be made. There's money to be made. Yeah. And obviously me being a good builder that  

Oh yeah.

Well, allegedly, I mean, I'm,  well we ought to really tell everybody what's going on here and now we've met and everything. 

Yeah. So I am, I've come full construction background. I own SB Construction. So we, we, we employ our own lads. We do everything full turnkey. In construction from building a house from the ground to the finish. 

And you Neil 

me. I know, absolutely Jack, about building.  I've got a basic knowledge. I'm not one of those people that doesn't know how to do DIY, put it that way. No, but you're a businessman. I'm a businessman. So Sam, back in, I can't remember how long ago, how long were we known each other now? This was September.

September. About five months. Yeah. Um, you put an advert out, didn't 

you? Yeah, I was looking for. An investor, but it was never anticipated to be long term. It was like getting a foot in the door, get somebody on board, and then build it from there. But it was really,  I wanted to dip my toe into, look, let's, let's start doing our own thing.

Yeah. Where by we're not, there's no customer there anymore. We, we know we can, what we can do, we just needed the initial financial investment to get us going. And like I say, I put that ad out. You did. And I think I put it out quite a few times to be honest. 

How long had had you 

had the advert out for then?

I think  I'd put it out six months prior to that. And then I put it out again and that's when you hung me up and we just, you contacted me and it was like, let's have a coffee. Well, 

I mean, really. So I, as you know, obviously I sold my business last year, which was in nothing to do with building, which was in wheels, agricultural wheels.

Um, family business, been, I've been with my dad for. 15 years doing it. So I came out and I was lost. I had no idea what I wanna do, and I have struggled my ass off to kind of figure out what it is that I wanted to do. And really, I think you came along at the perfect time. I think my brother-in-Law sent me a message saying, oh, there's a builder online.

He's looking for investment. You know, short-term investment. Um, you know, why don't you go have a chat with him? And I thought, well, you know, no, I'll go meet up with him. See what it is. He's probably nothing. I wasn't going with any kind of confidence that nothing was gonna happen. No. And, and Vic thought, oh, let Neil do this.

Let him have it. You know what 

though, it is like a scary jump for you because obviously you knew nothing about it. I know you've known nothing about construction at all. I know nothing about 

construction. I know nothing about 

investment. You didn't know me at all. No.  You know, so a big, big, and same for me though, as well.

I didn't know that at all, but I just think you click with people and then it's, we're both as weird as each other. 

Well, it, it turns out that way. We we're weird, aren't we? I 

think so. Yeah. We like have our laugh, but no. Should have you luck. Yeah.  Yeah. 

I feel like I was definitely  cacking my pants before I came.

'cause I was like, I've gotta try and make it like I know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. I think within, you know, five, 10 minutes 

we, yeah. And I think that conversation could have gone  like that way a bit egotistical if I'd have been Yeah. That guy. Yeah. And we was like big dicks in each other.

Yeah. Yeah. And obviously I'm the big dick.  

I think that we, we had a certain degree of like, look, this is what I've done. Yeah. Which you have to do. 'cause you know, how else do you find out what somebody's done and stuff. So 

the way I looked at it. I'd done it previously before I'd tried to put the cards on the table to someone. 

It didn't really go the direction I wanted it. And I just thought of you. I just put it all out on the, on the table. Yeah. And let's just see where it went. 

Yeah. And we actually had a lot in common. Yeah. You know, outside of business. Yeah. Which kind of helps. Um, I think initially we thought, oh, we'll, you know, we'll do this one property, which was an auction property.

Oh man.  Yeah. Which by the way. We never got the auction 

property. We do not recommend an auction. My God, it was stressful. It's too stressful. And Neil doesn't like to lose people. No, he does not like 

to lose. I was like, Beards, Beards, keep going. Come on. So, 

but we lost it. Don't look at him and think he'll give up '

cause he No, no.

But we did lose it in the end of the,  and probably rightly so. 'cause went way outta 

budget. It was too much. But say, so moving on from there. What, what have we done from there then? So.  

Well, so yeah. So we then went away. I came back to Vic and said, you know, I'm interested in doing this. Mm-Hmm. And she was, I think you were a bit like, oh, 

this is interesting.

What did Vic 

think of? Well, she, she kind of was thinking, let's let this play out. Yeah. 'cause she's like, it'll be nothing. Yeah. And anyway, I said, Vic, come along. Let's go look at the house. Yeah. Which we did. We met up with you and all of a sudden she started to feel it. She liked you. That's the 

first time we met is eVic.

Yeah. Yeah. At the,  at the Horncastle property. And I impressed her. Yeah, you did. You impressed her. So, and I was like, look, if we're doing this, let's do it properly. Families have got me.  Really? We kind of took it to the next level almost 

immediately. Well, that was the day we named Burn and Butler  

it. Oh, we went for a drink, didn't we?

Yeah. Yeah. That was the very day. Yeah, we did. We went for a beer. Yeah.  And then we could sort of thought we're gonna do 

this. Best laid plans are always from a beer. 

Yeah. What are we gonna do? What are we gonna call it? Yeah.  So, and uh, I came up with it. You did, 

did you? I can't remember You. Did he actually.

Right. So, and then we were like, okay, we doing this. Let's do it properly. So this was prior to the auction. Mm-Hmm. So we're like, okay. So the auction came, lost a house. Yeah. And we were like, well, we're in now. We were, although it was just that one property we were gonna do, we were like, no, this is what we're doing now.

Which 

is again, it's like I look back and I think, well, you could have just gone, nah, that's too, that put me right after. Yeah. But the thing about us, I think what we've got in common in common is that when we're in, we're all in. Yeah. We're doing it. We're not doing it at all. We're all in. Yeah. And I think that's what other people, if they want to do this, they need to establish that relationship.

'cause if you've got one that isn't Yeah. Quite the same or is half in and half out. They won't, they won't stick to it. I just wonder 

if our kind of relationship is unique in the fact that  we are in business together. You are the builder and I'm not. Yeah. Whereas most property developers, I don't know, will probably be just the developer.

They're 

not real. Yes. I think we made that commitment, didn't we? We said, you know what? Let's set up a company. Yeah. Let's do this properly. It's not gonna be a one-time thing. Yeah. Set the company up.  Half and half. Yeah. Straight in. Yeah. And then we knew we locked in. Yeah, we locked in. It can't be a one it wonder.

No. 

Kind of thing. And then we've both got, we've both got kind of skin in the game. We've got a, you know, we've got, we wanna make it work. Oh man. 

I think we spoke about this the other day actually. It's like interesting how some people limit themselves to a certain degree. And the way, the way I compare it is that.

There was a time when I set up SB Construction. I wasn't VAT registered. Yeah. And I was like, oh, do I don't, but  I didn't last long. I was like, well, if I'm ever gonna do anything, yeah. I need to be above that threshold. Yeah. And I think recognising those limits and pushing past them is a big, big part of it.

But it's uncomfortable though. Yeah. It's really uncomfortable pushing yourself outside of that comfort zone. Yeah.  So we obviously moving on from that point, that's when we. Found Eastfield Road, wasn't it? Yep. It was one weekend. I remember I was scanning right. Move or whatever I was getting. I was like, burden. 

I found one. Yep. And I sent it straight across to all of us, didn't I? We got a group chat. Yep. And we went and looked at me and my wife, Kasha straight away, went and looked at it and then we was like, yeah, this is the one. And then you went on the Monday. Yep. And I think. It was probably the you being the way you are.

Yeah, I was right. You've probably put that, yeah, 

that bid in. 

That'll do. Just that day I called them. Yeah. And we'd made the offer. Yeah. We had a throwback though, didn't we? You didn't accept the, I think 

we went in at like one 10. Yeah, I think they came back at one 20. One 20, yeah. 

Yeah.  So I fell in love with that because I just, you, I could see.

The potential in that with what? The extension that was going on there. Yeah. The area it was in.  And I think they're the key things that you've gotta recognize when you're trying to do this. Yeah. Is that,  find your brand. Yeah.  Think about whether it's gonna suit that area and whether you can pull the value back out of that property.

Yeah. And then just go 

for it. Do you think we went in a little bit blind to what?  What was involved? I mean, not from a building point of view, but from like, definitely not from 

building, I think. No, I think maybe,  so we speak, we speak about this quite regularly, but Anticipated profits Yeah. Is a big part of what we talk about now, isn't it?

Yeah. Because it's very new to us. We still haven't sold our first property. We've obviously got another one in the pipeline. Well, it's bought. Yeah. And we are trying to anticipate our sell-out value. Yeah. At the end. Uh, we know what we think we're gonna spend, but it, see this is interesting as well, that we thought we was gonna spend a certain amount.

Yeah. And it's already gone over that point. Yeah. But me and you, and I think this is just great, is that we both agree that in order for us to push the brand we want Yeah. And the quality into these houses, we're prepared to go a bit over to the next level to to, to push it out to the people that. Are gonna want it.

Yeah.  So  a big part of what we've discovered early on is managing expectations in it. Yes. Yeah. And the overall, what we think we can get out of each property, and everyone's different. None of them are the same. No.  Um, but what is interesting about our brand and what we're trying to do is that the properties are one of one really.

So they're exclusive to their area. Although that might change. Yeah. Later on down the line, we're still trying to make each house  a part of the brand, but different Everyone will be different. Yeah. 

Which makes life difficult when we're trying to think of a sell-out price. Yeah. Because we've obviously spoken to estate agents and we've got kind of ballpark figures, but it's so different to anything else out there.

Yeah. Even they're struggling to kind of come up with a figure.  

I, yeah, it's very, and I think that's a very difficult job for 'em to do. Yeah. Until they actually having had that experience with Matt, it sort of taught me that maybe we went in a bit soon with the valuation. I see what you mean. Yeah. And maybe we should have held off a bit longer, but it was just nice to get  an overall Yeah.

Valuation on things and what you explain that 

guys. So, yeah. So, um.  So we got an estate agent, Matt, from Newton Falwell, which hopefully we're gonna get on this podcast in the next couple of weeks. Yeah. Um, he came over to the last project that we've got going on and gave his evaluation, which was a lot less than what we thought.

But I suppose from his point of view, you know, he doesn't want to give us a, an unrealistic figure or a figure that he might not have and then make him look unprofessional, I suppose. Yeah. So he's gotta be conservative. 

He has, I feel, because he did also put him on camera. 

Yeah, we put one on camera. Under pressure.

Under pressure, 

yeah. Yeah. And sort of we had already told him what we had expected. Yes. So I think he was sort of bringing us back down to the earth a little bit in some ways. But yeah, in some ways as well as having spoken to other people, it could be received is that  estate agents. Working two ways.

Some will wait for a sale, others will want to make sales. Yes. So being conservative will probably make a sale quicker. Yeah. And Matt obviously will want to sell. Yeah. For us. And do a good job. Yeah. Do it quick. Yeah. It's like working for a customer. You want to do a good job, isn't it? 

I just wonder though, if it gave us the kick up of the arse, maybe that we needed to kind of look more into what we were doing.

Yeah, it did. Whether it, whether we wanted to hear that information or not is actually probably useful for us. 

I suppose, and then we made a few drawbacks, didn't we? We did, yeah. And it made us analyse the overall budget. Yep. And kind of where we're prepared to go with it, but don't divert from the brand.

Yep. And lose 

that. We're still going to that next level. We're spending more than most people would. Yeah. But it's gonna be unique. It's gonna be high standard. Yeah. As soon as it's finished, people will be hopefully wowed by 

it. Do you think?  By us doing that brings a greater value  for 

me. If I was doing it and I was sorry, if I was buying the property, yeah, I'd want it all finished.

All done looking amazing. No upgrades? No, because sometimes people buy new build houses to go. They're constantly upgrading over the next five years. What's the, what's the point? What's the, you won't have to do this. No, it'll be 

done and it'll be. Mint. Exactly. 

Absolutely Mint. And if you wanna see it, you can go on YouTube and watch the progress.

Yeah. YouTube butler. YouTube. YouTube, Instagram. Yeah. 

We're on there And we do daily updates. Yeah. Or weekly updates, don't we, with our YouTube episodes. Yeah. But I guess  just talking about Lincolnshire and where we are, it's so different from  being in London from any, yeah. Or Essex or, yeah. Anywhere like that.

Yeah. You obviously, we haven't got.  The, the top value that we can get out at the end? No, but like you said earlier, buying land here. Yeah. Like we are looking at a deal that you just is unbelievable, aren't 

we? Yeah. Isn't it? I mean, let's, let's take the, the single plot that we bought Mm-Hmm. To start with, which is in a little village just outside of market raising called Legsby.

And, well, we'll be honest, we paid 90,000 for the piece of London and it's probably. What is it? A third of an acre? Maybe just a little bit more than that. Yeah. Um, Ninety-thousand for that. And we are gonna be putting a full with full planning. With full 

planning on it. Yeah.  And we got that down, didn't we?

We did get that down. Yeah. I can't remember. Was it, I think it was 1, 1 10, 1 20, something like that. So 

it's unbelievable. We're two minutes away from the race course. Two minutes away from the. The town itself. Yeah. And a golf 

course. And a golf course. We love golf. Yeah. We are just telling Vic earlier, weren't we, that we're gonna be doing another YouTube channel, which is, um, me and Sam on tour playing golf throughout the 

summer.

So you see the TikToks where people are going around playing golf courses. Yeah. It's not happening. Me and Burdon, we're gonna do that. Yeah, yeah. Around the world though. Oh, 

that's a great idea. Yeah. We'll start local girls. Don't worry, we're not going along here. And we might start our own 

YouTube channel.

Oh, what's that gonna be then? Why? Why is on 

tour? Lives on tour. How original only fans  the could help us out.  Cashflow, guys,  

I think maybe we should speak about like, um,  schedules on these projects and how we are managing  to schedule these projects out. And if we are just going with the flow or we're just, we have a bit of a structure as to when we start, all things start and when we finish.

Because it's quite, it's been quite a learning curve up to now. Oh, it's 

been fluid to say the least. Really? We kind of, we got LA didn't we? Mm-Hmm. And then within what, two weeks, we were like, oh, this other plot of land's come up that we were just talking about. Let's go for that as well. So we did that, bought that.

That took ages to go through. Didn't that? And that's 

it. It's just so we had an idea of when we thought we could start or when I could get the guys to start. But that was thrown back because obviously solicitors, 

well we are gonna 

get a solicitor on here. We need a solicitor on here. Yeah. To just talk through.

'cause that process from when we actually made the final bid and it got accepted to us, actually completing  just seemed so long. 

Yeah. Glorious. I hope whoever we get on's got a thick skin 'cause we're gonna hammer them. 

We need to flipping, I wanna know what the hell they're doing. Yeah. In that time, which we are waiting for the bloody thing to go through.

We've said 

though we could get a solicitor that's quick, that's shit hot. But then if we are selling to someone that's got a solicitor that isn't, it's a 

waste of time. Yeah. So for instance with legs be, we were so on it. Yeah. 'cause it's a new build plot. We thought we can just smash this out. Just a piece of land.

You know, Pista land, you don't think there's gonna be any hurdles to cross. Yeah. Or go over, but this guy was living in Saudi, Arabia or somewhere like that, trying to sell it to us. And we did it over Christmas. Yeah. The paperwork supposedly got signed and then he'd sent it to someone in Southampton who then had to run it. 

So their solicitor. Yeah. Oh my God. So we've not had a great, what did you finally To get it over the line? It took three months to it. It took 

three months, yeah. To get a piece of land over the line for a piece of land. So what we've realised now is that we need to pre-plan. Yeah. So like the LA project is coming towards an end.

Yeah. We're gonna start the new build on the plot. So really we need to be looking now. Yeah. On the next job, which we are. And really we don't know if we are jumping too quickly with this one. You were just mentioning it earlier, some ambitious, aren't we? Where are we at 

with, you know? You know, I think,  like we said, we are all in and when we're all in, yeah, we're going for it.

A full power and uh, I guess this thing that we're talking about, can we talk about it? 

Yeah. To a degree. Yeah. So it's a plot, isn't it? That's got five, well, five houses on it. It's a development 

development really? Yeah. So it's a big nudge.  In the direction we, our overall goal, where we want to be. Um, but we've decided is it too soon?

Can we do it? We're just trying to structure it in a way that it's manageable for us. And I think this is for anybody who's trying to do this. Remember that you can actually go back  to these guys and say, well, we can't probably do it all right now, but we can do part of it. Yeah. And then we will, we'll pay the rest.

When we've done, yeah, a couple more or something like that. A 

structured deal Yeah. Is, I mean, it's pretty unheard of really. Yeah. If we can make that work, it makes each plot worth, what was it, 60 maybe? No, fifty-five grand, maybe. Yeah. 

Yeah. For, for a plot over the overall, it's, yeah.  So I think we've discussed it, but it's just, if it comes off, it's unbelievable, but it's all, 

it's all like.

You know, double, triple the, the amount of money that we would normally, it's 

overwhelming, isn't it? Yeah. I think, 'cause obviously we've got a, an unadopted road to go in as well. Yeah. So that is all purely on us Yeah. To do. And it isn't just a a hundred yards, it's, it's, it's a big Yeah. A big road to be fair for five developments, which are, are big, lovely prestige houses.

Yeah. So  it's a real dipping your toe into the big boy world of development. Yeah. And I think. We, we are up for it though, aren't we? I 

think we, we are up for it. Yeah. It's just scary. I mean, I've, well, all my money's gone already. Yeah. And we've already done the two, we've only done the two properties, so,  

but we've, we've got value in 

property.

We've got value in property. Yeah. Yeah. We've got people that want to help us out to get to that next stage. Yeah. We just got, 

and that's amazing that,  I just wanna touch on that, is that, yeah.  'cause we've now, we are a few months into this. Yeah. And we're only a few months into this. Yeah. People are looking at this and going, you know what, this is, this is great.

Yeah. Well I wanna be a part of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, and that's evolving every 

day. Really. Because imagine if we just did one single plot. Mm. It would take us years to get to the five. Yeah. Property development stage. 

It's like a leapfrog situation where we are, we are leaping two, three years.

Because we could carry on at this pace. Yep. Comfortably. I mean, I talk about this pace. It's a bit of a joke really, innit? With four months into, I know, two properties. Yeah. One's nearly finished. One's about to start. Yeah. And now we're looking at five in one go. Yeah. It's just slow, slow, slow. Yeah. If me and Neil aren't the most impatient people, I know what we are.

Well, we're ready to move on to next project. That's what you said to me just now. I did. Yeah. I'm just so impatient. I.  People listening are probably thinking, well, your boys are idiots. But that's where 

mine stems from, is uh, I've always been impatient. Yeah. When I was, so, obviously when I was running SP construction Yeah.

It was like, one job won't enough. Yeah. Right. I'll go for another one. Yeah. Not enough. I'll go for another one to the point where I'd like eight, nine jobs. Yeah. But then, then you are in a different, I was in a different world altogether. Yeah. It was a big boy world for me. Yeah. And you needed to pull your socks up and get on with it.

And sort of learn. I was learning on the job. Really? Really? 

Yeah. Yeah. 

That's best way though. Yeah. So it taught me a lot and then I reigned it back and then I got a bit more comfortable with it. Yeah. I'm ready to go again 

now though. That's the thing. I dunno about you, but I feel more at home when things are, you know, hustling and bustling and it's, it's a lot going on and you're under depression.

Yeah. I feel like you can make some bad decisions, but you can also Yeah. If I feel like we'll thrive under pressure. Yeah. And. Don't be scared of being uncomfortable. 'cause that's, oh, that's what I've ever done. Really? 

Geez. Yeah. I mean, that's something that  anybody that is an entrepreneur will realize that Mm-hmm.

You've gotta get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And that is 

like, I can remember  be working for dad and I was like, oh, what do I want to do? I don't wanna do this anymore. Whatever he was doing. Yeah. I was like, no, I'm gonna go and do this. So I went and set up.  The business. Okay. SB constriction. I was like, well go.

I want to go. I love building and this is what I want to do. Yeah. So coming from, and I'd always been self-employed. I've never been employed. Yeah. So you are always kind of in an uncomfortable situation. You never knew Yeah. When you was gonna get paid, you never knew really how much work you had. Yeah. And whether you could hold onto that work.

And it was just an evolving situation where you had to become comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah.  

So at least now you are in control 

of the jobs. My God, I can't  talk to you enough. We're not about this. 

We're not waiting for someone to pay you because  

honestly, anybody who watches this, who is a builder or construction company will understand the hardship that comes with customers.

Some of them are absolutely amazing, but some of them are not. And  getting people to make decisions, which I was telling Neil about. And everybody really that's doing this is that  we are gonna thrive at this point. Because when we're getting towards the end stages, this is when customers struggle to make decisions and what they want in a property.

Yeah. So you could be ummin and Ahrin for months on end, and then before you know it, the price that I'd given someone. Yeah, it is now I'm at a loss because I had a timeframe, say it was six months. It's gone over two months now. Yeah. But I was onto the next job. And it always worked in that motion, is that it was one job after another, and if you hadn't hit that timeframe and gone over it, it cost you money.

Yeah. So  I can't speak about it enough, and I think this is where we're gonna benefit massively, is that we are making the decisions like Eastfield Road in la.  We've made all the decisions before we're even plastered. Yep. It's all done. Yeah. The kitchen's signed for the bathrooms are done. Yep. Everybody's got a plan.

And everybody's got an input as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So all of our, all of your lads. Yeah. The girls, yeah. They've all, I mean, the girls are,  they've done me over in the kitchens in the bathroom. Do you know what I mean? I feel like they've set you up, mate. To be 

honest, I, 

that's a strong. Yeah.  Do they really want me here?

No. Why? No. Why did they get me in there? Stay in your lane down just to take the piss outta me and my lane is the building, so I'm happy with that. The stick. Yeah, I'm 

happy with that. The thing is, we're all, like you said, we're all gonna have a say on it, but. You can't be worrying too much about what's going on with that.

'cause you've got no, the organising of the lads to do. There's too much 

going on. There's too much going on in the day to day basis 

to be, and if we get five houses that we've gotta do Yeah. We've gotta structure that even differently to what we're doing it now.  Yeah. Otherwise it's just gonna get outta control.

We 

need to be all five need to be sorted. Yep. Before it started really well 

for like the um, the legs plot. We've already started discussing bathrooms and kitchens. Yeah. With Lavish. With lavish, yeah. In Laith, having people like that on board. Oh, 

it's brilliant. I think  that's new to me as well. Yeah. And obviously to you is that they're putting steps in whereby that's already sorted.

Yeah. Before we've even put a digger bucket in the ground. Yep. It's gonna be sorted and we'll just go straight to it. The plan will be there. Yep. It'll all be done and dealt with. And it could 

be ordered, you know, before we've even started almost. Yeah. So, 

so we get in front with everything. But I understand that at times I. 

You might not want to order something straight away because it's a cash flow situation as well. Yeah. Because we, we too have a cash flow situation that we've got to manage. Oh, it's massive. Yeah. And it's massive. Yeah. The bills are horrendous. I think 

anybody that runs a business right now Mm-Hmm. Is struggling with cash flow.

Yeah. Everybody. So we get it and I think over the next few weeks we'll find probably other than solicitors and accountants. Mm-hmm. Whether they have cash flow, I don't know. 'cause they charge obscene amount of money per hour to do, to do the job.  Um, it makes you feel ill really, it does make you feel ill.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, 150 quid plus an hour. I know they have to train hard. Why aren't we getting that kind of money? I don't know. I dunno.  One day age. Well, this is the thing. This is why wasting time choosing things, you know? That's why we want to be on it. Mm. Because we need to get the houses sold, otherwise we don't get paid and we 

ain't got all the answers.

No. So why not leave it to the people in that Yeah. Area Exactly. To do it. That's their profession. 

Yeah. Let them guide us. Yeah. We can put our, you know, ideas through. Yeah. I 

just get it done. And I think by the time if we do to do this development,  they will know our brand. Yeah. And they'll be making all the suggestions to us.

Yeah. And that'll be a good place to be in. Oh, definitely. And then it can just be the girls going, oh, can we just tweak this here, pull that out. There'll put that in there. Yeah. And then what 

place to be in really? Oh, definitely. So really then over the next few weeks, we need to get as much knowledge from as many people that have, are 

doing it, have done it.

Mm-Hmm. Anybody that's sort of willing to,  if they want to ask us questions, but yeah. You know, if they've already done it in the development world. Yeah. We would like to ask them some questions because we are very green to this. Yeah. Obviously we have an idea of an end goal of what we want to do, but yeah.

We want to speak to someone who's done it. Yeah. You know, who's actually been there and done it in this area. Really specifically 

in rural living. Yeah. Yeah. We know there's money to be made. Yeah. Um, so really you guys are gonna learn pretty much at the same time that we are learning. 

Yeah. But also the guys that have construction companies as well.

Yes. Trades. Yeah. Anybody that feels that they can add value into this, or maybe say to us, do you know what? I think it's great what you're doing, but this is probably what I, I think as well. Yeah. You know, we are just absorbing information like a sponge, aren't we? Trying to Oh, definitely. 

Yeah. Take it all in.

It's a massive, massive journey. 

What a journey for both of us. I mean, for you, Neil. This is, it's pretty wild, isn't it? I 

mean,  I haven't gotten any knowledge of building, obviously, but I have a knowledge of running a company, I suppose. Um, dealing with staff, dealing with people, and really I think that's kind of.

What I enjoy doing. Mm-Hmm. And I've always liked property, I mean, interested in it, but when you're not a builder, it's just like, it's mind blowing. So 

what do you 

think about it then? Oh, it is fascinating. Mm-Hmm. It's amazing.  It's amazing how simple and yet complicated it is all at the same time. Yeah. You know, you're thinking, you're digging footings.

You're putting blocks on, you're building walls. Mm-Hmm. It sounds easy, but it's not. No. And also if it was easy, everybody would be doing it 

and throw all the logistics in there with that as well. 

Exactly. Regulations, you know, plannings. Oh God. Um, you know, like for, for this lab project we've had  lec, um, the electrical company.

Mm-Hmm. We've gotta, you know, resort the power out, the cable that's in that building, it hasn't been touched for 40 years. Mm-Hmm. You know. You can pretty much touch it and get shock. So  

it is literally alive above the door. Existing door. Yeah. As you walk in. Yeah. It was only when the Sparkie come to us and he says, you do realise.

That whole box up there is live and was like, oh,  

I better step away from that. 

Can you make it safe for us? Clinton?  But even I at that point didn't realise it was so, yeah. You know, still learning in that from Oh, definitely. You just think the simple things, like we talked about the BT line there, looks like there's a BT line in there.

Yeah. You've spoken to them today. Yeah. There isn't one there. It's not live. Yeah. It's disconnected, so we've got to put a 

new one in. Yeah. And really, we've gotta do that a hundred percent. And just going back to what we were saying, we are putting things into this house really that I would say. Most people wouldn't.

So we are making provisions now for CCTV.  Whether we put it in, we dunno yet.  But 

yeah, I think we'll make that decision towards the end because I feel like the CCTV thing is a big thing now. Everybody wants it. Yeah. And I think if we are gonna command the value we want in this property that we know it is worth, we've gotta put it in.

Yeah. Simple as, yeah. We've gotta put it in. Add the extras. It's a part of the brand. Yeah.  

Why are we documenting everything?  

We trying to make it relatable, aren't we? To people that potentially want to do this? Yep. Or have started doing it. Um,  talk about the struggles.  Yeah, the ups and downs and all of the stuff people don't tell you 'cause everybody just tells you the good stuff, don't they?

Yeah. How they're doing. Well, or you know, how many lads you've got, how much money you've got, car you've got. Yeah. And you really wanna be talking about, we really wanna be talking about is.  How shit was it? Yeah. The difficulties 

of 

it. Yeah. The difficult stages and how did you get through it? Yeah. 

We'll obviously say the wins that we have, which is, you know, 'cause you wanna be proud of what you're doing.

Yeah. But you need to see those obstacles. Mm-Hmm. Learn how to come to overcome them and everyone else can see how we overcome them. 

Yeah. Creating an awareness to it really is. 'cause I don't really know, other than the, the building side, I don't know anything about.  Development, I guess No. In terms of the building, I know that, but the actual  going through the whole process of buying it.

Yeah. To down To selling it. Down to selling, yeah. And all the legalities that are involved in it as well. Yeah. Boundaries, stuff like that. I mean, it sounds boring, but  they, they have a huge impact on buying a property. I think the people that have done really well make a lot of the money when they buy.

Yes. It is what you buy the land for. Yeah. As opposed to what you build them for. 

And, and for us it's uniqueness. You know, once we've got an established brand, a look, a 

quality, I just don't want to be walking onto something that Bird and Butler have done and it be in a square box. Yeah. Generic. Yeah. You know, the 

same.

We wanna build houses that we want to live 

in. Yeah. And what do we say about Eastfield Road? Every day we go down there, f**k me hard. We want to live here. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the key to it 

all. I agree. Yeah. So where, where do you want to be in 10 years time with this? 

So  my end goal or our end goal? I guess it kind of, it running itself.

Yep. At a point where. The, the developments are ruining themselves. We can dip our toe in and out as and when we please. Yeah. I mean, you have these huge expectations that everything's gonna be perfect, but it's not going to be No. For me, it's, and I don't want it to sound  bad, but financial freedom is a big, big driving force for me.

Yeah.  Because to actually have a choice in what I do in my life and when, yeah, when I do it.  For me, that's everything. I don't necessarily need to have a lot of money, so. So what 

you're saying is the most valuable thing is time? Yeah. 100% 

time. Yeah. Because at the minute, obviously everything's work, work, work, work, work.

Yeah. You don't have time to sort of digest what you're doing. It's go to sleep, get back at it, go to sleep, get back at it. Yeah. I want to have that time to be able to say, I'm not going in today. Yeah. Or.  We've booked a flight, we're going on a holiday. Yeah. Or we're gonna take the kids so-and-So yeah. That to me is, means a lot.

And 

also enjoying what you're doing on a daily basis. 

I love this though. Now this is, I can't explain to you  the transition that I've made, how much I love this. Yeah. Every day I wake up and I wanna go to work. Yeah. Which I'm a, I'm a, I shouldn't be going to work. Really? Yeah. You tell me it's.  Yeah.

Everybody says I'm, micro-managed, but I'd 

love to go to work. You don't need to be on the tools. No. You know, if we're gonna grow this company, you don't need to be on the tools. But I get it. You know, from someone that's come from working in a workshop, you want to feel like you've done a day's work. Yeah.

So I think every now and again, you have to go in there and get your hands dirty and get stuck into it. And I don't, for my mental 

health, yeah. I have to do it. Yeah. Because it'd been so long doing it now. Yeah. I think for me to just stop it, and I tried a couple of weeks ago and it was like.  I dunno what I'm doing.

Yeah. I feel lost. Yeah. You know how you, when you sold DNS,  you felt lost. I did. That's how I feel. Yeah. It's like I've lost my purpose. I can't just drive around. Yeah. And do Yeah. 

Looking for properties and stuff like that. Yeah. It's not me. 

Yeah. But mixing it in Yeah. And getting that balance is, is very important.

Yeah. But I guess,  so what do you want  

the, the freedom is a massive thing. Yeah. You know,  selling a company, you think, oh, this is fantastic. It isn't really, it's great and I'm extremely lucky. And, and don't get me wrong, I'm grateful. Mm-Hmm. But  because I've lost my identity, I'm, I'm starting again. I'm starting my career again.

Um, what am I, 38 mm-Hmm. I am starting again. And, but I'm starting something that I feel passionate about. Mm-Hmm. And, and I want to be proud of it. When we get to, you know, retirement age, we, we're not the kind of people that are ever gonna retire. No. Because we just, like, we enjoy work too much. But we want that freedom.

Yeah. You know, and if we want to go off and do other things, then great. You know, so we're talking right now on this series about our developments. Mm-Hmm. But we, we want to look into commercial property. Mm-Hmm. Never done commercial property. So to get someone on here to teach us about that and learn more about that, you know, getting revenues, you know, every month from, from rent, you know, some of these houses we built, we may end up keeping 'em on their books.

Yeah. Get a portfolio together potentially. Yeah. And rent them out right now, that's not what we're doing. No. But who's to say we're not gonna do that in the future? 

Yeah. And I think also a great thing for people to actually know about is how they can access money to be able to do this. Yes. Because for me, I know nothing,  nothing about it really.

Yeah. Have an understanding about mortgage and you know, the way you can leverage from equity. Yeah. But that's where it stops for me. Yeah. And. You've kind of  taught me a lot more, and I guess what we, I would look for is someone who's in that department and could tell us. Or teachers, yeah. And other people that wanna listen to this.

I think what they can do, I think 

it's difficult to borrow money no matter, you know.  We had a long-standing company that, you know, we, that my grandpa established in 1981. We still had to, you know, beg the bank manager to come over and lend us money. Yeah. It shouldn't be that way. No. There's barrier's there to stop people from getting on in, in life, in business life, which doesn't make any sense, but, 

but it's not impossible.

It's not impossible. I, myself, have equity in my house. Yeah. And obviously in my mind, being a builder, I'm thinking.  Well, how can I leverage this money? Yeah. In order to be able to do what I want with it? Yeah. What, 'cause what's the point in having the value in the house and not being able to use it? Yeah.

I think you can't remortgage to get money out. I believe that you can get a loan and use your house as collateral in order to do it. I think that's probably the option. Yeah. Um, but really we could deal with somebody coming on here and telling us. Absolutely. Absolutely. So.  If anyone out there wants to come on and to tell us about money, please do.

Thank you. Yeah, because this 

is not advice.  I'm not trying to give anything. No, this is us. This is us. Neil's turned into the guy, the expert. Yeah. Giving the advice. I've 

absolutely no fucking idea though, because we've done it yet, but  waiting for at some point someone 

to 

come and be like, 

this house now belongs to us.

Yeah. You need to leave.  It's been repossessed.  So, yeah, we did hear about a guy who sold, we spoke, went to a business thing and there was a guy who 

sold his house. Mm-Hmm. Oh yeah, he did tell his wife.  He came home. Yeah. And he told his wife, oh, just to let you know, I've sold the house. We've gotta be out in a couple of months. 

Wow. Yeah. 'cause he was, he was a property developer, but apparently, wow, that's some big boy balls. That is. I said, how did you take it? And he said, oh, pretty well. 'cause it wasn't the first time I've done it. I was like, oh,  that's not happening. I would like to speak with someone that, oh yeah, yeah,  he's divorced now. 

Not that. 

At this point we've got our YouTube going guys. Um, so if you wanna follow our projects, what we're doing, we are on YouTube, bird and Butler. Mm-Hmm. Um, and we try and put an episode out once a week, but we're gonna kind of mix this podcast in Yeah. With the YouTube. Um, 

it's a different kind of content. It is, it really is.

It probably gets down onto a more of a personal level with the podcast. Yeah. Which I think other people might find really interesting. Yeah. Uh, and they'll be able to get a better understanding of us Yeah. And other people as well. So 

really if there's anybody out there that wants to be on our podcast that is within property development, yeah.

Or as we said, solicitors, accountants, lawyers, all those kind of things, then get in touch with us 'cause we will happily have you on, won't we? And you get to sit in this lovely room. Yeah. And drink coffee. Yeah, it's good coffee. Yeah. Um, and Simon's getting short something because it's extremely hot in here.

It's so hot. 

I hadn't anticipated how warm it was gonna be in here. 

It's 

February. Yeah, I know, but it's 16 degrees outside Vic 

it wants to be 'cause it's been a horrific winter. Or touch wood. We have a nice spring and summer. Oh God, please. We'll get some building done. So if 

you wanna see our up-to-date progress on both of our projects, check out the YouTube channel.

Birdland Butler. Thanks for listening, guys. Appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. And if you've enjoyed this episode, please like, follow and subscribe. Listen to it in your car on the toilet, having 

a poo,  keep it buttoned. 

Okay. Fair.  

Come on, Jay. Roadman catching you up now, 

mate. I've actually really enjoyed this. It's good. Good? Yeah. Really good. It feels more me. 

Yeah.  Ah, okay. Yeah.  

So if you've enjoyed this episode, have  so, if you've enjoyed this rural property development, no.  So if you've enjoyed this episode, please like, follow and subscribe to 

it.

Listen to us in your car. Let's have a poo on the loom. 

Yeah. Anything else?  Uh, 

um.  Sam, it's 

your catchphrase. Oh, keep it booked. Oh, I keep 

it buttoned. Let's do it again.  

Hi, I'm Neil Burden. 

Hi, I'm Sam Butler and we are Burden. I'm Butler, and this is  our property developer. Ah,  ****. You are a ****, Sam. This 

is our Rural Property podcast. Yeah.  Yeah.